First off, I do enjoy and like the Positions but too many times people will read those position descriptions and they become law. If you think about it everyone is a Sabre really. When you are on the field there is never a set task that you do. You always have to change your gameplan and playstyle. So instead of being just one position you become all of them as you need to do what needs to be done rather than what you want or what your position is to do.

I thought that is what the Sabre did is step up and fill in all the positions. For example if they need some paint laied down, then the sabre steps up and dose it, if they need someone to flank then the Sabre can do that, IMO the sabre is your do anything guy.

Reaper, you hit the nail on the head. You understand what really makes a good player. The positions are useful only if you know how to use them, and that is with flexibilty. I can't stand it when people ask what gun they need to play Dagger, if they can flank or not as a Broadsword, etc.

The sniper is the only guy who should stick to a relatively indifferent playing style. The rest should play as a team where they are needed and set themselves up to play as a good team by dividing the team into offense and defense and playing from there. Broadswords have good firepower, so they are good support guys. But if there are already three or more guys laying support fire and no one at the flanks, he better not say, "It's not my job, I'm a broadsword!".

Well, as I always say, stay flexible. The positions are GUIDELINES or less. Do whats needed or what you want.

I agree. Your Specops "position" should not define you or your playing style. Too many people see it as law

How can you guys POSSIBLY say that? After all, there's NO WAY a sniper could lay down suppressive fire. Impossible. Can't happen. And a commander?! Don't get me started. He sticks on his radio and barks orders at people he can't even see. What a load of crap. You guys know it's simply not possible to use tactics outside of the position.




























[/sarcasm]

uhhhh??? what?

AMEN!!!!

Lol..

Ok a couple of positions have some flexablity such as; dagger, sabre, and heavy rifleman. For example you can have your Sabre flank instead of your dagger, you also could have your dagger lay down surpressoin if you realy need to. Other position such as a sniper and Commander dont have as much flexablity.

This is the way i see the positions: dagger-glanker, sabre- stepup and do anything player, heavy rifleman- surpression guy, sniper- ambush guy. That is the guidelines i go by when i log my guy.

MY AFRICAN AMERICAN BUDDY you best not get on the same field as me, cause a real sniper, like my self, can shoot one round and you will be in the corner crying for your moma for the rest of the game. A sniper can often hold up an entire time (even in massive scenario games) from advancing if they have good skills, that is considered suppersive fire. Not all commanders sit in the back and bark orders into a radio, I am also a Co-team commander, myself and the other commander get on the front lines and blast the enemy into tiny little bits (it is what we do)

Perhaps you might want to see the "Sarcasm" note he put at the end of his post before you start making threats, pal.

Couldn't agree more with the thread starter.

Sorry, did not see that. I have just seen and heard so many people dis the sniper that I guess I jumped in with two feet before I finished reading what you said. me bad.

How was what I said a threat, it was a "you on the same field as me, one of us spendin a lot of time in the dead box, and it is not me" piece of information. (JK) I did it to try and grab your attention

I think paintball snipers are all a matter of opinion really. Personally, I don't really believe in them because they can't really "reach out and touch someone" any better than I could with a well placed shot. And if you want to go by a literal definition then every player is a sniper really, we all try to conceal ourselves and fire from a concealed location.

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Yehahahaha!
*Tear*
Oh my god, he think's he's bad(butt) on the internets. Aww, man.
*Giggle*

Anyways. This is exactly what I've been preaching for my entire paintball 'career'. The positions are kinda fun and cute, yeah, but this isn't Battlefield 2 or something-everybody starts out equally-equipped, really, and can be expected to do whatever is required of them at any given time.

Two Things -

1- Learn to read. "[/sarcasm]". I agree with JR.

2- I didn't know a lone sniper could stop an entire time. Much less the much more crafty scenario time.

Well no, three. Just one more hole to poke in your logic and I'll be done. No matter where you shoot me, or mostly anyone, I doubt one ball will send me or them It's a safe bet to say that I've been shot just about everywhere but the bottom of my feet. Haven't cried once. =)

EDIT:
Damn you and your immaculate logic! Found another pretty obvious hyperbole. You do not, good sir, blast anyone "into tiny little bits." If you did, you'd've been put into some sort of facility a long while back. Sometimes they miss a few, whatcha gonna do, you know?

LOL, yeah, I thought that'd get a few people. See? That's what happens when you drink and post! Anyway, no worries. And I am a commander more often than not, as well as a sabre-type. I've also played Broadsword and Sniper many times (see brigade log). I just log the play as what I do the most. But, more often than not, I'm playing what would be at least two positions, and usually three in a single day.

My team only uses SpecOps ranking system, not the field postions. When my team arrives at the field we divide up into two squads. One is a "fire team," with markers capable of a higher bps and an "assult team," with players who can run faster and manouver a bit easier. The only specialized position may be a "sniper" employed on the fire team to help break stalemates or aid in scouting the opposing team's positions.

Lately however, only 2-3 team members have been comming to the field, once every two months, so those team members who do attend get folded into the walk-ons and.

TheReaper, you and I are going to get along just fine around here.

It drives me to distraction whenever I see someone post that they're a 'hammer' 'broadsword' or 'cheese grater' because dammit, we're all paintball players.

With the ever changing scenarios, fields, and objectives, only the idiot confines his play style to one set of rules that were set up by a company to sell gear.

Even the 'sniper' as awesome as he thinks he is, will find that scenarios often don't require his 'talents' and if he decides that he needs to stick to his ghillie and guns, he's going to be worthless to a team.

The very first time I'm at a walk on game and I ask a player to do something for me, and I hear him tell me that he 'cant, he's a *insert sales gimmic created position name here*' I'm going to wrap his barrel around his neck.

You guys hit it prefectly. Flexibility is the key to succes in our game. railroading ourselves into a position or constantly using one set of tactics in your game makes you predictable, boring, and ineffective. Lets face it. If we go to a game, and we know that Joe Nimrod calls himself a 'hammer' every time, a flexible team will know how to deal with his set of tactics.

Then we have "Sniper Sal" whose dressed in his bush suit and carries a 45 round hopper.....we've got a pretty solid feel for what he's going to be doing today.

Then again, my team showed up to a game with some of you guys, looking at our strange assortment of gear and never referring to ourselves by position titles, you shouldn't have a clue as to how we play, what tactics we're going to use. You're not going to be as confident in your abilities to counter our style, since you haven't got a clue what the freakin style IS. Hell, we don't know what the style of play we're going to use is until the game starts and we can get a feel for the scenario.

I'm not saying my team is awesome, but we aren't readable and we are flexible. If the game is to be a real challenge, we should all strive for the same image.

there's no real position i believe that describes all of us best, it what we naturally do best and signifies for itself
and i'm getting lazy to type anymo... lolz

other than that, good job reap, be yourself and not get labeled

I think this is partly true...But only to an axtent can another position player fill in a different one...For example a Sabre may be able to put suppressive fire down, or play like a Dagger. But you can't exactly get a Sniper to fill in for Hammer.
Plus alot of players might not be able to play certain positions, not necessarily because of equipment they have, but because of the skills and (good or bad) habits they have acquired playing their position, and the player's physical fitenss and build can affect how they play alot too.

Why not? The point of a 'sniper' in paintball is to be sneaky and shoot from a concealed place. I mean, supposedly more so then anybody else does. There's no reason someone with a D/T can't make sneaky, concealed shots. It might be a little harder, because by and large they've got twice the gun and paint, but they can still do it.

Reb, not every sniper uses ghillie. I don't, and I do just fine without it.

And you guys are right, the psoition tags aren't meant to be taken word for word. Snipers CAN lay down supressing fire. Good supressing fire isn't just a constant cone of paint. Its a few well placed shots that keep the enemy's head down, too.

First off, I agree with you guys about, "I play Dagger so what’s the best marker for me" that’s taking it too far. You define the position; the position should not define you. Now I do not know why Special Ops came up with these positions, whether it was for marking, or as a helpful guide for woods ballers. The point is that they put them out there and there are those who need to be educated as to what they mean. I look at them as way to help people to learn what skills and gear kits are "needed" and/or "useful" for a certain style of play. The dagger doesn't want 50 pounds of gear weighing him/her/or whatever (whatever your gender is, if you even have one, don’t know any more these days ) where as a Broadsword can and does handle the weight. You wouldn't send a "sniper" or as I like to call them a "Sharp Shooter" with only 20 or 50 rounds in there hopper to lay down a suppressive barrage for cover fire. It just doesn't work that well.

The other thing that I would like to look at is the Saber position. I view the Saber as a highly trained and skilled player that knows how to play all the other positions, maybe not as well as the person that they are replacing but well enough to get the job done. Not as the "all around grunt". What is your view on the Saber position?

I get what you're saying BonusRound but my point is that you should not set your gear up for a single position. You HAVE to be flexible. If everyone on your team has straight up defined themselves to a single position and you play a team of equal skill that every player is capable of playing every position, you will lose. Example you stick your sniper out there and my players can adapt to his play style and counter him. Then you are down a sniper and I still have all my players who can play as a sniper. I don't think I can put it any better than Reb did. The best way to be successful is to be flexible.

You are correct in the fact that flexibility and adaptability will win the day. The positions are guide lines, not absolutes like some of these players are thinking. The best that I can say is we need to not box ourselves into I have "X" marker and "Y" gear kit so I can only play "XY" position. You are correct in saying that the team will lose if all other factors are the same. So, with that in mind we need to teach others how to customize their gear to multi role and not just stay with just one position. A stiff and rigid tree will snap in the wind where as a flexible tree will give and bend but will remain standing.

The key thing is to "educate" these people (with the business ends of our markers ) and not to criticize them for their misguided thinking.

Im just wondering... whatever happened to the search button.. Theres like 20 of these threads. lol.

Every now and again though, this is the type of subject that should be refreshed. I moderate over at another paintball forum, and there are reoccuring threads every now and again that we let slip by, because lets face it, if you have something you'd like to add to a thread that was posted three months ago, you can either start a new post, or bump a dead thread. Your two cents is worth as much as anyone elses, so you should have the right to post what you please, but pulling a dead thread from the annals of time.......noone cares for that.

Searching is nice for information, but not always condusive for the sharing of opinions.

True but I can remember some of these threads that arent very old... maybe like a month old max. And those threads have established that the positions are just guidlines. We dont need to reapeat that.

That's their problem then.

True but I do my best to help people as to help them better enjoy the sport and promote paintball.

I think the positions are to show ones specialty it should not be a law carved in stone but guidelines. a sniper can supress by a show of extreme accuracy. when some guy with a longbow is shooting the spot my head was just at im not going to look up. the other positions can do anything also. a commander can help with some suppression and flanking if it is absolutely necessary. if it is just you and your commander you shouldn't be expected to trade punches with the enemy all day the commander can flank our supress the position.

everyone keeps explaining over and over about how a commander and sniper can supress but no one wants to explain how a dagger can i suppose you could , but if your using a spec ops style dagger gun with a three inch barrel from 50 ft away then good luck . the last guy im afraid of on the field is the one who couldnt manage to tag rosie o' donnel. i dont see a need for any postion other that medium and heavy. mostly, given the effective range of paintball guns and your potential accuracy(based on paint, weather, barrel, user,etc) the only REAL difference between positions are weight and gun size. i see alot of people who have weighed them selves down with "small and light weight' gear who only appear to be light weight . just because your gun is tiny doesnt make you light weight and just because you wear less paint when your a "sniper" doesnt mean your ghillie suit doesnt make up for it (yes i realize not all "snipers" where ghillie). if you have 2 a5's that are identical in all ways except barrel length, one doesnt become a dagger gun and the other doesnt become sniper . if i were to create a five man team id have 2 "heavy gunners" since that playing style tends to carry more paint and the everyone else including commander better be a do it all "sabre" that way its never me having to depend on people shooting from too far away with a snub nose barrel . you need to be able to adapt to different situations since everyone you play agaisnt is going to be different and in my opinion, dagger and sniper are the least adaptive.

i'm the team commander, since i'm the most experienced, but more than often i find myslef running point, suppressing, sniping, and flanking. my orders "barked through the radio", as one person put it, are at people who are near me, not people i can't see.

Yeah, I stopped reading after the first few posts.
I just thought I'd drop my thoughts in as well.

If you ignore the Commercial and Business Aspects of the SpecOps Positions I do think they have good intentions. Look at all sports. People usually have a Specific Position that they play. They train to be this position, they practice this position and eventually they perfect this position.

Imagine for a minute a football team with every player just being an "all around player". With the QuarterBack deciding to be a Blocker for a play, or the Kicker Wanting to Throw the Ball.
Chances are that Team would have their butts handed to them in any game.

Bring it back to Paintball now.
Imagine a team that has people in these Spec-Ops positions. Each player is the epitome of their Position.
The team would be unstoppable. Everybody would know what to do, when to do it, and they'd know exactly what their teammates were doing.

Anyhow, so that's the Theory behind the Positions.
Is it gonna work that way in the Real World? No, it won't. But like everybody seems to agree with, they're only guidelines.

The way I believe that they're supposed to work is that you take how you play and compare to the positions. Find out which one you're most like, and then read the tips and such.
Don't find a Position you like and then force yourself to play it.
I'm not suited to be a Dagger. I'm too big of a target (5'11. 200lbs), and I'm not the fastest player. I can do it if I need to, but I'm a better part of the team if I stay back just a bit. I've learned this from playing, and getting smoked while storming Bunkers and such.
Besides, I have more fun playing if I'm backing up a Dagger. Staying like 20ft behind him as he makes a Rush for a building, providing cover fire as we run. Crazy stuff.

So that's my two cents.
I hope it made sense.

I like and see your point but in a football match your quarterback or kicker won't be suddenly removed from the game during a play. But in paintball what if all your Daggers go down? Are you just gonna' go all out defense when you're on offense? You will have to if none of your players know how to play any other position. So what I'm trying to say most of all is, the positions are good and helpful but only if you learn to play all of them. In which case all players realistically should be a Sabre or w/e.

The football analogy is a nice one, but its not really a practical one for paintball.

Consider the limitations of a game like football.

Spacial restrictions: The field is the same size, no matter where you go.
Team size: Always the same.
Objective: Score points. Touchdowns, safetys, field goals.

Regardless of the play run, the objective is the same, and the field is the same. In situations like this, it might be practical to have a player whose specialized talents, like kicking, or running into other players can be used effectively.

But you've only got one objective and a limited number of ways to accomplish it.

~Paintball however is a completely different animal.

The field size: ever play two fields that are exactly the same? Same size, same bunker patterns, same cover, same......anything?

Team size: Ever been to a walk on game? You could have as many as 500 guys, or as few as 20. Your tactics are going to change depending.

Objective: Wow. Is this one ever the same? Capture the flag, eliminate the president, escort a principal, rescue, defend, attack, flank, infiltrate, protect, elimination, ring a bell, find the clues, etc, etc, etc.

My point here, is that paintball games are never the same. You could play the same scenario on the same field with the same number of guys, and have different outcomes each time. The game is always changing. The scenario, the players, the tactics, the field.....and lets face it, if you're locked into one set of skills, regardless of what they're based on, you might be less than useless in a certain scenario. You've got to be able to adapt your play style and tactical ability to fit the scenario you're in. If not, it's like trying to open a can of stew with a pencil sharpener. The sharpener is great for putting a fine tip on a #2, but not so great at getting lunch out of the can.

positions=marketing gimmick

Did you even read the whole thread? Weve been over this.

I'm glad that my comparison kind of made sense to a couple of you.
I have a bad habit of not being able to explain my thoughts on forums.

The Football analogy was just to get my idea across.
You guys are right, Football and Paintball couldn't be further apart, except for the fact that it's a Team Sport.

Being able to Adapt to new situations while on the fly is probably the most important skill to learn for paintball. All of the positions need this ability, so yeah, in essence everybody needs to be a Sabre.

My opinion/thought is that the elusive "perfect team" would be say 10 guys, who are all "Sabres". But one of them is better at tactics and leadership, so he's the Commander. 1 of the guys is a bit slower and loves to throw alot of paint, so now he's a hammer. A couple of them are really quick on their feet and love to rush, so they're the new Daggers. The rest stay as Sabres.

This way, everybody on the team can do anything if they need to, but they have the specific positions to start with. So we get the specialization we need to win, but we have the adaptability as well.

That test is easy, but amusing.

Dude the POSITIONS when played right and with A TEAM are worth there weight in gold

This is exactly what i wanted to say when i read this forum. Like many other people may have said (i havn't read a lot, sorry) everyone needs to know everybodys position and how to play it. But that doesnt mean that they cant specialize into a position of their own that they like. You must know everyones position, how it works, who can help you the quickest when your bogged, etc. Cause if you only know your position, then you are putting your team at a huge disadvantage.

Perhaps, but you aren't invincible. What happens if all your daggers and sabres go down? You have to be flexible, if someone goes down, somebody needs to fill his spot. You can't just have everyone being capable of doing only 1 thing at a time... look at it like this. If you can only use your feet and you rely on someone else to use their hands for you and they go missing, you're screwed, you must learn to adapt to survive. Paintball is like Natural Selection. (Not the video game)

I agree with most of the people on this thread that the positions are mostly guidelines and you have to stay flexible, but as someone said earlier your position is your specialization, and as such should be your main job, and IMO Commander isn't so much a position as a role that someone takes on the field.

Leave commanding to somebody who has experience and can keep people alive, not someone who is just good at getting kills. But yeah, I guess they are somewhat like guidelines but my point is people have to be flexible, because too many times I have seen people focus ALL of their gear, and tactics to a single position. They need to keep their gear comfortable for all areas of play and need to learn any and all tactics they can.

i agree with this, the sabre position in the SpecOps JUNK. is the intended purpose of filling in the blanks. the sabre position itself in general play is to help and assist the commander as much as possible, on my team, Chris is my sabre and he does a fantastic job of helping me out when i need it most, if i already sent out my flanker but hes taking longer then intended chris volunteers to take the other side. or if we get bogged down he automatically takes Suppressive fire to get us moving again. its his job to keep an eye on the team as a whole while me (the commander) is working on getting us going and keeping us alive from everyone else, and dagger is busy getting angles on the OpFor and while my broadswords are busy keeping there heads down, we work as one unit. each with there own responsibilities. thats what a team is. and i believe thats the intended purpose of the positions, to keep a TEAM working as a UNIT not 5 players who come together to trade paint. call me crazy, i love the sabre position. i think its one of the most important!

I agree to an extent... When you go to a walk on game every one is a "saber". but when you have your team you do have different positions... this helps cordinate the team and also makes your team very eficiant

I agree. Although the way I play would be qualified as a sabre, I'm more of a mix between a sabre and commander b/c most of the time I'll find myself sitting back and yelling out enemy positions and other times I'm in the thick of things, trading paint with an enemy.

To elaborate more on that, I would say that whomever the next two or three guys are that like to throw paint (perhaps whom also don't like to get fully into the middle of the activity of the firefight) but aren't thrilled about carrying a DT or quite as much paint as that one of the guys who's Hammer should be your broadswords. Whomever your one guy is who is disciplined, quiet, a good shot, and quick on his feet could serve as your Squad Designated Marksman or sniper.